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Sane Wailings
by Atheist Under Ur Bed
Location: Jumpingoutfromtheshadows
  

Should The Burqa Be Banned? 3/1/2010


France Moves Toward Partial Burqa Ban (CNN; Jan 26)

PARIS: French lawmakers Tuesday recommended a partial ban on any veils that cover the face -- including the burqa, the full-body covering worn by some Muslim women.

The ban on the "voile integrale" -- which literally means "total veil" -- would apply in public places like hospitals and schools, and on public transport, a French parliamentary commission announced.

It would also apply to anyone who attempts to receive public services, but it would not apply to people wearing the burqa on the street, the commission said.

The commission stopped short of recommending a full ban because not all of the 32 commission members could agree on it.

They will now recommend that Parliament pass a resolution on the partial ban. Such a resolution, if passed, would not make the wearing of a full veil or burqa illegal, but it would give public officials support when asking people to remove it.

Commission members began their work six months ago after French President Nicolas Sarkozy controversially told lawmakers that the full veil was "not welcome" in France.

Sarkozy said the issue is one of a woman's freedom and dignity, and did not have to do with religion.

The French National Assembly assembled a cross-party panel of 32 lawmakers to study whether women in France should be allowed to wear the burqa -- or any other full veil, including the niqab, which shows only the eyes. The commission also studied whether such full veils pose a threat to France's constitutionally mandated secularism.

Commission members heard from 200 people from all areas of French society, including Muslims, though they only heard from one woman who wears a veil.

By recommending a ban on full veils in public places such as hospitals and schools and by anyone receiving public services, the commission members said they wanted to assist those working with members of the public when asking that full veils be removed. That would include school teachers who meet children's parents or ticket agents at train stations.

A date for the vote in Parliament has not been set, though it is unlikely to happen before regional elections which are scheduled for March 14 and 21. Parliamentary majority leader Jean-Francois Cope said this week he believed the resolution will pass.

Any law directed at full veils is likely to be challenged in the courts both in France and at the European level.

More than half of French people support a full ban, according to a recent opinion poll. The Ipsos poll for Le Point magazine found 57 percent of French people said it should be illegal to appear in public wearing clothes that cover the face.

That's despite government estimates that less than 2,000 women in the country actually wear the full Islamic veil.

France has about 3.5 million Muslims, representing about six percent of the population, according to research by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. The country does not collect its own statistics on religion in accordance with laws enshrining France's status as a secular state.

French lawmakers believe the burqa is a growing phenomenon beneath which lies a not-so-subtle message of fundamentalism.

Those who advocate the ban say women are often forced to wear full veils by the men around them -- husbands, fathers or brothers -- and that it is a sign of subjugation.

However, women who actually wear the veils deny that.

"You are going to isolate these women and then you can't say that it is Islam that has denied them freedom, but that the law has," said Mabrouka Boujnah, a language teacher of Tunisian origin.

Boujnah, who at 28 is about to have her first child, says she came to wearing a full veil gradually, after wearing headscarves as an teenager. She said she believes a law against full veils would take away fundamental rights of Muslim women.

She and her friend Oumkheyr, who would not give her last name, say they prefer to cover their faces out of piety. The women, both French citizens, say they are only following their religious beliefs and France should respect that.

But even some Muslims in France think the full veil goes too far.

There is nothing in the Quran that directs women to cover their faces, said Imam Hassen Chalghoumi, who runs the Islamic center in Drancy, a Paris suburb. He said it is ridiculous to do so in France.

France already has a law against Muslim girls wearing headscarves in state schools. It sparked widespread Muslim protests when the French Parliament passed the law in 2004, even though the law also bans other conspicuous religious symbols including Sikh turbans, large Christian crucifixes and Jewish skull caps.

In 2008, France's top court denied a Moroccan woman's naturalization request on the grounds that she wore a burqa.

France is not the only European Union country to consider banning the burqa. Dutch lawmakers voted in favor of a ban in 2005, although the government at the time left office before legislation could be passed.


Opinion: Why I'm Proud To Wear The Burqa (Oumkheyr/CNN; Feb 4)

(Oumkheyr is a French Muslim woman in her 40s. Of Algerian origin, she is divorced and has a daughter. She tells CNN why she's proud to wear the burqa, also known as the niqab or full veil, and what she thinks of the law proposed by the French government to ban the burqa. A French parliament report has called for a ban on the burqa in schools, hospitals, government offices and public transport.)

I wear the burqa for the simple reason that I am a Muslim and the Koran says that I must wear the full veil in order to be modest.

I am proud of my Muslim faith and my modesty. I am proud to follow God's law.

Nobody ever forced me to wear the full veil and I have been wearing it for around 10 years now.

In fact, very few of my friends actually wear one. There are, of course, situations in which some men force their wives or daughters to wear the burqa but, believe me, these cases are a very, very small minority.

For those of us who are believers, we just want to do God's will and live by the sacred text, so what any man says has nothing to do with that.

I am testament to that as I don't have a husband and I practice my religion freely, that's why I'm always shocked when people say it's the husband who forces his wife to wear a burqa.

It is actually the case that a lot of men in France do not wish their wives to wear the full veil because when they go out, they are insulted or attacked and their husbands don't want them to be put in that situation.

I first started wearing the full veil when I was a teenager but I stopped for a while because when you're young, you don't want to be set apart, you want to look like everyone else.

But later after seeing what was happening with terrorist attacks involving Muslims all over the world, I decided to become more conscious and find out more about my faith.

In the process, I found myself becoming more spiritual and decided to start wearing the burqa.

Now, my liberty is being threatened with this law proposed by the French government. If this law is passed, it will be a great injustice. It is very unfair that they are even considering this law.

Perhaps the French authorities are terrified that women will start dressing like this, despite evidence to the contrary.

Why am I, as a Muslim woman, targeted unfairly, when there are less than 2,000 of us in France who wear the burqa? Where is my freedom of clothing or expression?

France prides itself as a country that upholds the rights of man but where are my rights? Why am I not free to wear what I want?

Many cite security reasons because they can't tell who is under the veil. But myself and a lot of women who wear the burqa are always happy to identify ourselves when asked.

In the past, I have taken off my veil when it is asked of me -- as long as it's a woman who does it. My religion demands that I cover my face in front of any man who is not either my brother, father or husband.

I have been wearing the veil in France for years and it has never been a problem, I use public transport like everyone else and I've never had any problems.

Although, it can be quite strange when I'm on a bus for example and people say to me: 'You poor thing, we feel sorry for you.' And I wonder exactly why they feel sorry for me.

I'm very happy wearing the veil and it makes me spiritually fulfilled as I'm practicing my religion, so I don't really see it as anything to pity me for.

I really believe that France is scared of Muslims, which is the motivation for this law, but people shouldn't generalize as not all Muslims are the same.

Yes, some have done terrible things, but it is done in the name of man, never in the name of God. I, as a French Muslim woman, have nothing but love in my heart towards all people.

And whatever the outcome, if France succeeds in banning the veil on its streets, I will never take mine off. My freedom means a lot to me and if this law is passed, I would rather move to another country where I can worship in peace.

I obey the laws of God not the laws of man.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


If you were a member of the French parliament, would you vote to ban the burqa?



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that's so stupid, to try and ban the burqa! There was an incident with...Abercrombie and Fitch (I think, not totally sure) where they fired a 19 year old Muslim girl, stating that she couldn't wear her burqa, it didn't fit in with the dress code policy...she had already agreed to wear only the colors they told her she could wear to work, but I guess that still wasn't good enough... [ekundayo] 3/1/2010 8:59:27 PM
it's so stupid...a burqa is not offensive in any way! My goodness the basis of it is modesty! What is so wrong with that?? [ekundayo] 3/1/2010 8:59:53 PM
*note: the girl who was fired wasn't wearing a full length burqa, but a head scarf...sorry for so many notes lol I'm rather frustrated by the ignorance in the attempt to ban such a thing... [ekundayo] 3/1/2010 9:00:56 PM
I'm against government having any control over religion when it is not harmful to anyone. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that worldwide it's rather the opposite of a "small minority" of women who are forced to wear the burqa. As such it stands for a symbol of oppression and a catalyst for conflicts. I can see both sides on this one. [Tak] 3/1/2010 9:13:05 PM
A pretty touch subject. Same thing used to go on with women wearing pants. Last I remember people still had a freedom of choice. If a woman is 'forced' to wear it then she has the right as a 'human' to step forward and say "no." Billions of people over the centuries have done the same thing even with prosecution and death to accompany it.  [AnAtheistsPhilosophy] 3/1/2010 9:22:39 PM
Burqas should be banned since it allows anyone to use them as a disguise. The Koran is written by men and they like to enslave women. Obviously lots of women are actually falling for this. [YAH] 3/1/2010 9:24:04 PM
It seems to me that banning the burqa will only harden the resolve of women who feel obliged, because of their religious beliefs, to wear it. It will therefore further restrict their freedom in French society and encourage other pious Muslim women to wear it too. Better, in my opinion, to ignore it, and in a generation or two, like other minority dress and other cultural mores do over time in Western society, it will probably disappear. [Arbi] 3/1/2010 10:07:07 PM
I obey the laws of God not the laws of man.
Pretty ironic statement if you accept the Koran was written by men (and not women).
I agree with Arbi that banning female covering practices is asking for trouble. Ignoring undesired behavior is the time-tested way to make it go away. Well, ignoring non-violent behavior.
And that's the problem, isn't it? Burqas are ambiguous.<br> I would like the women who wish to cover themselves that way to get certified somehow that a man isn't threatening them in any way to make them wear it, but that's not a practical proposal--it's just an emotional response to an illogical situation.
 [Deve]
3/1/2010 10:21:43 PM
this is probably really non-PC of me, but my 1st thought was, you could hide a helluva lot of ammunition under a burqa. i am wary of anyone who feels the need to not just modestly cover themselves up but to disguise their shape, their faces, every identifying mark. that seems to be something very easily exploitable.  [Cairdeas] 3/2/2010 12:13:33 AM
I think the French government's probably taking the right approach. A government can justify banning articles or behaviour in public spaces, because that is where the government has its work to do. [NotKieran] 3/2/2010 8:11:25 AM
I don't know enough about Islam. But the first article states that nowhere in the Kuran does it say to cover your head... and then the editorial says the Kuran tells women to do so. So which is it?

Also, I have a feeling that this is one of those cases where women are brainwashed... like those women who slammed the door in the face of Susan B. Anthony while she campaigned for suffrage.
 [Ampris]
3/3/2010 8:23:36 PM
Like Ampris, I noticed the two different supposed Koranic teachings, and would like to know which is true. If I were a member of the French parliament, I think that I'd want her to provide proof of her belief that this actually is religiously-mandated Muslim piety, by showing where in the Koran it tells her to do this. And while she could be allowed to wear her tent, as this article suggests is part of the proposed legislation, in non-public situations, there should be limitations to the burqa's *exposure.* Foremost among them should be that such covered women should be not allowed to teach children, for the children's sakes.... no point in accustoming them to this macabre tent dress.

I don't think a full ban would be equitable, because that would be seen as impinging upon the practice of religion, and while I strongly disagree with Islam, I don't think forcing a ban on women's dress is the way to go. Winning hearts and minds should use less hammer, and more velvet glove. [April Fool]
3/4/2010 3:45:16 AM


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