Okay, clearly, I know pretty much everything I need to know about gay men. I know how we think, and since much of the world has decided that gay= men with men... I have no clue where to find the answer to this question, but it's quite important to something that David and I were discussing just now.
It's common among men, even gay men... to dislike men that are "too gay" (ie: too effeminate, for example, Austin Scarlett, who is a dainty, little flower of a guy). For those who don't know who Austin Scarlett is, think Johnny Weir, or Nathan Lane in The Birdcage. If those don't ring any bells, think Perez Hilton* if you must. Perze Hilton doesn't *really* fit my idea... but he's close enough.
Okay, so what does that have to do with lesbians and bisexual women? What I would like to know is is there an equivalent to this among women? Do really... um... *Google search* "femme" women sometimes (or even often) have a dislike for really butch women? Or any other combination? I just thought of that dynamic because that's the closest parallel I can think of, which is essentially reversing the dynamic and Very Important to the theory that David and I came up with.
This is a serious question. Really. I really want to know this, and I don't really have anyone to ask, and more than that, I need at least a few opinions or some good guidance where to find the answer. I currently have quite a few scribbled notes on the back of a card that could make for a Very Enlightening (or at least interesting) view of homophobia if I could get the answer.
**EDIT: Thank you responders! I just want to make sure that everyone knows that I'm certainly *not* picking on butch lesbians-- not at all. I just realized that the way I phrased my question was kind of ambiguous about that, and I want to clarify.
What I'm specifically interested in, is if there is a specific "type" of lesbian that tends to be more disliked than others. I don't care if they're butch, um... *Googles* femme, or androgynous (though that would kind of put a kink in my argument). What I'm most concerned with is the dynamic.
With men, lots of them, regardless of sexual orientation, there is a dislike (sometimes in the extreme) of men who act, essentially too girly. In the vast majority of these situations, those "too girly" guys are also gay (I know, duh, but not always!) I'm just wondering if there is any equivalent to this for women.
I know that straight men really don't like butch women, but I need the point of view of womnen, because that's a huge, gaping hole in my understanding of gayness.**
*It really annoys me that spelling Paris as Perez does not trigger my spell checker, but spelling Cyrus and Sirus does. Damn you spell checker!!!
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saw you on the home page.. i'm straight and i don't have any dislike for really butch women. the ones i know are actually very sweet and funny people. i can't say i've ever heard any females talking about disliking butch women. so.. hope that helps you! [bbblonde]
4/25/2011 2:15:32 PM
I'm a lesbian woman, and most people think off the bat that I'm straight because I look very feminine. But they learn pretty quickly, when I open my mouth, that I'm not. I don't go out of my way to look how I look; I just let my natural self shine through. I'm a size 2, blonde, blue-eyed, and don't look typically gay I suppose. However, I also don't waste my time with make-up, doing my nails, or anything like that. I'm just me. And I'm attracted to lesbian women who are the same. Healthy bodies, healthy minds, and not trying to be anything they are not.
That beings said, I'm not at all attracted to the type of lesbian who lets her body go for an 'androngenous' (sp?) look, nor am I attracted to girls who want to look like boys (because most of the time they look like boys I didn't find attractive in middle school), and for me, it's also a turn off if you're afraid to be yourself and cake on the make up. Moderation and natural beauty are the keys for me. Hence, why my friends and I refer to my type as a chap-stick lesbian.
I know my thoughts don't count since I'm straight lol But I would think it only makes sense that lesbians/bi-sexual women that are too "manly" with how they look/act would be seen the same way as gay men who act too "womanly". To me it would make sense being that way because if you're attracted to the same sex wouldn't it defeat the purpose to try and be like the opposite sex?
Although that makes me wonder if lesbian/gays feel that way more than say bi-sexuals? I mean if you're bi-sexual you're attracted to both sexes anyway so you might not have as much issue with someone being that way. But I can say as a straight woman I don't think I'd want a straight guy who acts too girly. [QuietDragon]
4/25/2011 2:52:28 PM
In my case it's the 'thuggy' lesbians that I cannot STAND at all. They think b/c they're lesbian they gotta do the whole thuggy get up and it just...drives me batty.
Yes I'm transgender, but it SHOCKS people when the find that out because they're like "oh we figured be all like...gangsta like, like the boyish lesbians"
I'm straight but if I were a lesbian I definitely wouldn't be into butch girls. To me it seems like it would defeat the purpose of being with a girl. [crazy~beautiful]
4/25/2011 7:46:46 PM
Sometimes I find myself annoyed by girls are are too far on either end of the spectrum. The high maintenance thing bugs me because I am not high maintenance and I simply don't understand taking lots of time to get ready for the day...so really, it's probably an intimidation thing. If girls are too butch, then I start to tread in the uncomfortable waters of if I wanted a girl who was practically [magicstar]
4/25/2011 8:28:32 PM
a boy in looks and mannerisms, then I'd date a boy. But, as these thoughts run through my head, I also find that line of argument ridiculous. In then end, I think I prefer someone who is more like me just because I understand it better, but I have definitely been attracted to girls across the spectrum. In the end, anything that feels like an act b/c that's the way lesbians are "supposed to be" is [magicstar]
4/25/2011 8:29:59 PM
what ends up putting me way off. I think that maybe girls who fall too far on either end of the spectrum, especially if she's super butch, might end up seeming like a show, which is why there's that knee-jerk reaction...at least for me. [magicstar]
4/25/2011 8:31:26 PM
I'm not sure if there is a group that is more or less hated upon by the community; I know that the really butch lesbians seem to have the stereotype of being extremely feminist, to the point of being sexist, but stereotypes are bad to go off of. I have nothing against any group within the community.
Okay, I take that back - high schoolers who have no idea what they're getting into who are all, [Vampire de Sang]
4/25/2011 10:14:26 PM
"OHMYGOSH! I'm so BI! Just like ALL MY FRIENDS! OH MY GOSH WE'RE SO MISUNDERSTOOD!" are a little iffy for me because I watched a lot of them when I was in high school who were only "bi" because it was the "cool" thing to be (wtf!?). Like Katie. Also, because they thought it was hot to have a boyfriend they could fvk, plus a girlfriend they could get kissy face with. I knew one girl who had a [Vampire de Sang]
4/25/2011 10:16:08 PM
boyfriend and got a girlfriend on top of that, and she and her girlfriend treated him like absolute cr*p until she broke the whole thing off. I remember the girlfriend dragging the main chick's boyfriend around by the ear. I wanted to smack both women, and I still haven't forgiven Laura (the girl who had the bf and then got the gf) for doing something so terrible to Kacey (bf). But, that's not a [Vampire de Sang]
4/25/2011 10:17:44 PM
definable type within the community. I don't hate high schoolers who identify as lesbian or bi; just the ones who use it as a status symbol, to prove their counter culture and sexually experimental. [Vampire de Sang]
4/25/2011 10:18:55 PM
I am not into butch women. I am bisexual, but if I am with another woman I like the feminine women otherwise physically I'd have just stuck with a man. [Mama Kin]