Response to notes concerning gun control…

Wow, nothing gets people riled up and the notes flowing than a spicy piece of politics. That being said, I’d like to thank most of the people who left polite and sincere notes in my diary. Whether or not your views side with mine, ever note was read and every link checked out… and I thank you for your contribution. Now let’s move to a few points I want to make about yesterday’s entry.

– The title seemed to cause the biggest stir. I admit it was put there to do just that, but only with the hope that debate would be the result. I am very well aware of the fact that the 2nd ammendment will never be tossed out because no President or Congress would be able to meet the two third’s majority needed to make any changes to the constitution. So any anger about tossing out the second ammendment is childish since everyone who knows anything about the constitution would be well aware that it will never happen, not while the NRA is around anyway. The title was a tad sarcastic, and if people took it too seriously… I apologize for pulling your leg.

– One reaction I got from a few people was over the fact that the post was too soon after the tragedy. That I should have given people time to greive before shouting out an anti-gun rant. I respectfully disagree. Unless we stick the noses of the politicans in the results of their inaction, it’s the only way to prompt the necessary changes to prevent this from happening again. It’s not like I was holding a rally outside VT, I was merely stating an opinion.

– Screw your rights. Yeah, that’s right… I said it. The right I was referring to was the alledged right to bear arms. Since when was that right higher on the food chain than someone’s right to exist? I never said in that entry that all guns should be banned, but I think a person’s right to live and enjoy life is a lot more imporant than someone’s right to own a Glock 9mm automatic. Don’t you?

– The fact is the killer who gunned down 30+ students got the guns legally poses a serious problem. If someone wants to buy a new rifle or get something for the buddy for his birthday, that’s cool. But if a quiet kid walks in and wants to buy two automatic hand cannons, someone should have paused for a moment and tried to find out what he wanted to do with these guns. One of my favorites pointed out yesterday (I’m not sure if it was intentional or just to compare to his own state) that Virginia has some of the most lenient gun laws in the country. Chances are if the gunman tried to purchase these pistols in another state, he likely would have been denied based on his mental history and prior investigations for stalking. In a way, he admitted (on a minimal level) that at least a little gun control (in the form or a more detailed background check) might have denied this kid from getting his weapons and thus going on his shooting spree. Yes, he could have tried to gain them through less legal channels, but I doubt he would have been able to afford them. His bitterness towards the rich suggests he likely didn’t have the funds to obtain them that way…

– Regardless of how many sources people toss my way, they will never convince me that more guns is the answer. All the evidence you need to kow that gun control works is to look at the homicide rate between all developed nations… and then compare all the ones that have that control to the nation that has the right to bear arms. The result is staggering and shocking:


source

This statistic is absolutely staggering. The murder rate jumps from around 1 per 100,000 to well over 4 per 100,000 … in Canada’s case just from crossing a border. Nations like Norway and Canada have very strict gun control laws, and stats like this cannot be ignored. For those who want specific stats with regard to actual deaths by firearms, here’s one that will make people scratch their heads:


source

I’m sure many will try, but how can you dispite this statistic? The murder rate per catia jumps up five times just by crossing the border between Canada and the US. This actually proves that music/TV, often a whipping boy when people are looking for anwsers to many of the school shootings doesn’t make a difference cause Canada listens and watches the same crap and you don’t see kids shooting up their schools as often as we’re seeing done by our neightbors to the south. The United States’ overall firearm deaths (8,259) is actually the fourth highest in the world, falling behind only Thailand, Columbia and South Africa for the top spot. Not exactly good company and enough to make the US #1 for developed nations. Compare that to Canada’s deaths via firearms (165) and you can’t help but marvel at how the numbers change from one side of the border to the other.

Yet what many people don’t realize what makes the above numbers that much more surprising is that gun ownership is actually quite high in Canada. Many people own guns in Canada, and they are purchased legally and all registered with the government. The only difference is we wouldn’t be allowed to purchase the Glocks or other automatic pistols that were used in the shooting at VT this week. I’m not saying Canada doesn’t have their major shootings, but we’re talking one every ten to fifteen years (mostly in Montreal, go figure)… which is mild in comparison to the one or two every year in the south. You can’t even buy ammunition in Canada without a legal gun permit, so even if you could get your hands on a gun… even bullets would have to be obtained through other means making things that much harder for people to use a gun in our country.

I don’t expect people to be converted, but the numbers don’t lie. Less access to weapons can lead to less murders, and even considerably less firearm deaths. If Virginia has a more strained background check, then this week could have been a lot different for a lot of people. In many other nations, this kid wouldn’t have been allowed to own a gun at all and would have had to access them through other means. Unfortunately, there are some people that think one kid’s right to own a 9mm Glock is more important than 33 people’s right to live. What is wrong with this line of thinking? I’ll leave that to you to answer.

Peter

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April 20, 2007

Couldn’t agree with you more. I also fail to understand why any regular citizen has a need to carry a 9mm Glock – why allow people to carry handguns without due cause? Hell, even our police officers here in New Zealand don’t carry firearms all the time, and if anyone has reason to, it’s them.

April 20, 2007

We lived in Korea for 4 years. I know you lived there as well. No one but police and soldiers had guns. Hearing that someone was murdered was unheard of… even hearing that someone was violently attacked was very unusual. However, I don’t think we will ever see any kind of meaningful gun control here in the US. I do my part by not having a gun in my home. We do not hunt so what do we needone for? They hold no fascination for me. Just like everything else, the bottom line is money. Too much money is being made off guns and ammunition.

April 20, 2007

Peter, your first entry was A LOT more militant than this one, and I’m glad to see the improvement. I now actually agree with your entry- a more thorough background check is needed, whereas last time you were calling for an outright ban. (check out my most recent VT entry) However, there is a problem citing country by country stats: different countries have different cultures, more explanation is

and research is needed. Hell, I can show stats on how the crime rate, esp with guns, in the UK and Australia has increased. On the flip side, I can mention how Switzerland and Finland have high gun ownership rates, with the former in fact issuing automatic weapons and ammo to its citizen militia, and cite their low crime rates. As for the US, concealed carry laws have been expanded to 40 states

since Florida cam in first with 1987, and not a SINGLE state has repealed a concealed carry law since, and with no crime increase in those 40 states. It depends on individual countries- what’s feasible, what isn’t. Your last entry seemed to call or an outright ban- and that would be impossible politically and physically. But I’m glad we both agree more background check are they key.

April 20, 2007

I don’t deny that gun control works in other countries. It works here in Norway, even though we have a high rate of gun ownership here (hunting). But the US is not other countries. With the proliferation of guns, the giant military industry and a long, long history of gun use, I fear that strict gun control would do nothing more than create a vast black market in guns. See drugs on that score. I read this today, which articulates kind of what I am saying better than I have: http://highclearing.com/index.php/archives/2007/04/19/6260

April 20, 2007

And I also agree with more regulation. More and deeper background checks. Perhaps required safety courses. Mental health background and/or checkup. But I think something culturally needs to change in the US for any kind of strict gun control to work.

April 20, 2007

Britain, with it’s very strict gun laws, had 54 gun homicides last year in the WHOLE COUNTRY!

April 20, 2007

Ummkay…Suppose you were doing a science experiment for first grade. You put three pieces of bread in different places- one in the fridge, one in a sunny window, and one in the dark. Then you wet each and compare the growth of mold on them. However….you don’t mention when you write up the paper that the piece in the fridge actually had a green dot before you put it in there….and the piece

April 20, 2007

…in the dark bathroom cabinet accidentally got a few drops of bleach on it when someone put the bottle away. The only variables you mention in your experiment are light and temperature. Do you expect accurate results? Now, do you honestly think gun control laws are the only variable between those countries?

You have to remember that correlation does not imly causation. In order to show that high gun ownership causes more crime, you would have to have a control and an experimental group where you remove guns. This is very hard to set up, but we do have a case in Australia. It’s too long for here, so I posted – http://www.opendiary.com/entryview.asp?authorcode=D684860&entry=10113

April 20, 2007

RYN: Yes, I understand what you are comparing. That doesn’t change the fact that there are still other veriables between the countries besides gun laws. The predominant religion makes a difference, the most common family situations and morals, the ethnic backgrounds, the economy- and Canada is just as different from the US as anywhere else.

April 20, 2007

I agree with Mark (as I do about most issues of gun control). Taking time to check out a persons background is fine, banning their right to protect themselves isn’t. I live in a big city in America, and there are times where I’d like to carry a gun for protection. Why? Because the police just can’t be everywhere at once. Also, a Glock 9mm isn’t a “hand cannon”

April 20, 2007

Gun crimes are actually on the rise in Canada. And for all the similarities between Canada and America, they’re two very different countries with very different circumstances. As I said, poverty is less extreme in Canada, and it’s a generally less aggressive country and culture. Canadians tend to place more faith than Americans in diplomacy and reason.

April 20, 2007

Americans believe in carrying a big stick. Further, Americans are more skeptical of government, and are concerned about the government becoming corrupt, in which case the citizenry needs to be armed in order to overthrow it. Then, of course, a fear of invasion has been present ever since the founding of the US, and the citizenry again needs to be armed in order to overthrow any invaders.

April 20, 2007

A certain degree of gun control is a good thing. Bans aren’t. And I remain skeptical of comparisons between different countries when it comes to things like gun control.

May 13, 2007

I agree that the 2nd Amendment should be revisited. Even if it were not thrown out, changing it to make it more difficult to obtain modern weaponry would be an improvement. However, I also believe that even throwing it out is essentially a bandaid solution. There reasons why a violent state of mind is so prevalent among many in the US, and that has to be explored first to obtain a long-term one.