The Road To War
Donald Ill Fucking Nuke You Towelheads Rumsfeld once called Old Europe. Technically, were in New Europe; the bit that curtseys to Uncle Sam and says yes of course were neutral as we bend over and let US forces refuel in Shannon airport. Theres so many things wrong with that I cant begin to explain.
Firstly, say we are neutral and America accepts this. Surely no right-thinking nation would put a non-aligned country into a position where its forced to make a mockery of its neutrality. If Ireland is neutral, then the only time a US military plane should touch Irish territory is during an emergency landing. If America respected Irelands neutrality, it would never have even considered using Shannon as a stopover. It may be practical and convenient; after all its used by thousands of American planes every year. But theyre civilian aircraft; if a US military plane lands in a country, gets refuelled and takes off again then its not too far-fetched to assume that the country in question supports the US line. But we dont. And whats more, I dont think our government does either. Turkey doesnt either, and if a vote against allowing US forces to stage an attack on northern Iraq from southern Turkey doesnt go through the Turkish parliament, that country stands to lose billions of euros in aid. 27 billion to be exact. In other words, theyre bribing a country going through huge economic hardship (the Turkish lira almost lost its value in money markets not so long ago; 1,718,657 lira will get you 1) with much-needed funding if it goes against the wishes of the vast majority of its people (95% are against US forces simply being in Turkey) and lets America use Turkey as a staging post for a war in Iraq.
A war thats so obviously about oil its laughable to suggest otherwise. I saw some Americans interviewed by CBS. Thankfully many spoke out against war in Iraq. I think myself the average Yank, educated as they are, is against war. But there are supporters nonetheless. Those for a war in Iraq said they wanted to see US forces protect our freedom. Someone remind me again how a sanctions-ravaged third-world hole on the other side of the planet is threatening the freedom of the most powerful country ever to exist on Earth. Saddam would have trouble making one of his rockets cross Jordan, never mind the US. And even if he did have one intercontinental ballistic missile capable of carrying his solitary nuclear warhead, the ensuing onslaught from America would avenge this hundreds of times over. And Dubya loves his vengeance.
The war is not about freedom. If it was, then Bush would have to go after every unelected leader in the world, some of which include:
* Kim Jong Il (Kreepy Korean)
* Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwean mentalist)
* Hosni Mubarak (annoyed-looking Egyptian)
* Yassir Arafat (Palestinian, shaken not stirred)
* King Hussein of Jordan (terribly nice chap, half-English)
* that Syrian bloke with the moustache (former doctor in London hospital, Assad?)
* the Saudi royal family (the Ewings of the Middle-East)
* himself
This war is about getting rid of people Bush cant control. Granted, Saddam Hussein is a despot of the highest order and the world will be a better place without him. But eventually his regime will crack. No one thought Slobadon Milosevic would go, and yet right now hes standing trial in The Hague for war crimes. Deposed by a disillusioned people who only a year previously were behind him against the onslaught of NATO attacks. In the end it wasnt the attacks that toppled him, it was the people.
And once Iraq is without Saddam, a government truly representing its people will be elected in. Place your bets now; will this new Iraqi government be as hostile to America as your average Tariq on the street? God no, what would be the point in that??? Iraq will have an elected government that keeps America happy, just like in Afghanistan where a posh intellectual with a love of all things western was dropped in and has had to survive several assassination attempts since. Bush says he wants to make Iraq an example for the Middle East. And it might be. But more than likely, internal ethnic conflicts in post-Saddam Iraq will resurface just like they did in post-Tito Yugoslavia when all the groupings that made up the federation suddenly remembered they hated each other and promptly attempted to wipe each other out. Theres Sunni Muslims, Shiite Muslims, Kurds, a few Christians and of course the die-hard Saddam-ites wholl wish for the bad old days. US forces will either have to stay for a long time and invoke the wrath of Iraqis in order to keep the peace. Or just leave and let even more people die in a subsequent conflict.
America wont leave until a US-friendly government are installed. Iraqs vast oil reserves are relatively untapped, and with Saudi Arabia on the verge of some kind of fundamentalist revolution America needs new Middle Eastern gasoline buddies. Bush doesnt care about anything but this. Bush is not an intellectual; he is a puppet. He was installed as a dummy by his Dads friends to finish the work they began ten years ago. Im convinced his public shall we say . clumsiness is not the mark of an intelligent but slightly inarticulate man; I think he really is that stupid. And not only does he not have the discretion to avoid using a neutral country as a service area on the road to war, I think hes threatening the Irish government with the prospect of reduced investment here; just like they are in Turkey. Just like they did when, having voted against the US in a UN Security Council motion, the Yemenese ambassador was told by his American counterpart that it was the most expensive mistake youve ever made.
I think the whole world is finding it very hard to find anything to respect in the current US administration. If I were American, Id look long and hard at the White House and ask what in Gods name is George W Bush doing there.
j
God you are ignorant.. heaven forbid we do something that is in the best interest of national security! But it’s cool, keep on hating Bush like a left winged jackass. Your entry was the same regurgetated garbage the left spews out daily.
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Oh let’s see.. I’m sure you’ve heard of the vx gas and the anthrax they’ve found.. and that’s ignoring the fact he has many ties to nuclear research. Ignoring the nuclear possibilities (the fact he was buying the uranium tubes and such), the chemical and biological weapons… combined with the fact he hates America.. how’s that for a threat?
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First off, there was vx gas and anthrax found in Iraq.. go read Powell’s report. Second, Al Qaeda and Sadaam don’t necessarily hate eachother.. Sadaam is somewhat abrasive towards bin Laden due to the fact that he may not be viewed as the arab savior. They do have chemical weapons, they do hate America.. you do not produce vx and anthrax unless you plan to use it, they likely would u
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lol, you truly believe he has no way of threatening American soil with vx gas and anthrax? You do understand how easy it would be to get those things here right? It would be very simple to make a terrorist attack with chemical weapons on our soil.. he couldn’t attack our soil militaristically, but he easily could in a terrorism form. Simple suitcase of vx could kill thousands.
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” If it was, then Bush would have to go after every unelected leader in the world, some of which include: *himself” Please tell me this is not some lame crack at him stealing the election. btw, did you read my entry on war?
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btw, fwiw (read my entry on war).. I respect your opinions and they are at least thought out. I don’t agree but I don’t have any quarrels with you sharing your views.. its at least somewhat rational.. unlike many arguments I feel from the left.
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I prefaced the read my entry on war thing because you’ll understand what I’m talking about on the respecting your views better.
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Im an american kid living in a Pro-bush house, and ive never really agreed with anything the Bush Administration has done since installed in office. I hate the idea of a “war on terror” or an “attack on iraq” or any “operation enduring freedom” and i see no point in any of the gov.’s decisions…and your entry really touched alot of my views and helped me explain my views to my parents…thanks
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On NK: Why is it that the left commonly says we are not being diplomatic enough with Iraq when we are looking at war.. but they, in the same breath, say we should be invading NK? Wouldn’t it make sense that we are more diplomatic with the biggest threat, and not want to directly piss them off as they could nuke Alaska tomorrow?
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So you are saying if the threat is justified to not work through diplomatic means first and go directly to war? That seems silly.. why not try to work things out with very threatening situations (NK) before forcing them to “push that button”? For all you know we are dealing with NK in diplomatic means atm before we do something that could cause huge world problems.
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You’re missing my point.. doesn’t it seem more logical to go through every diplomatic possibility to a country that can kill you? Rather than just straight up piss them off. I’m of the belief that the 12 years in Iraq was diplomatic enough.. and I’m against just attacking NK until we try to solve it diplomatically as they pose a serious threat. They need to be, and are, being dealt with i
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Now we’re getting somewhere.. and I believe we agree on NK. War is justified there, but I believe we are trying diplomacy first. As far as Iraq goes.. doesn’t 12 years of diplomacy justify enough? When do we say enough is enough? When do we put our foot down? He’s broken resolutions and resisted diplomacy since 91.
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I’m saying we need to be diplomatic as to not force a nuclear war from NK. I’m saying we have attempted to be diplomatic and given him a chance for years.. its time to finally do something and not let him build up to the point he is a threat. I bet you wish we were proactive with Hitler and stopped him before killing 10 million jews rather than reactive. Yet we are to be reactive with Ira
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How about the 12 years he had to comply and never did.. finally we are doing something and its a problem? Your stance is so hypocritical.. “war is last option” and then “have a backbone!” .. fine screw it.. lets go to war with NK without using all diplomatic options.. that way JayeL will think we’re corageous!
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So what you are saying is sit back and let someone continue to arm their country.. knowing they hate us.. knowing they would do something to us if they could.. wait to attack them until they actually do something bad to us. Don’t you think it will be too late at that time? Same reason Hitler almost took over the world.. everyone waited too long when they knew something was going on.
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Since has has obvious desire to become a greater threat, we should just let him? Gotcha, hope it isn’t too late if we let him build up forever. Saying he has no desire to attack us I think is incorrect.. but neither of us can prove that.
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Why do you mean by engage NK? If you mean deal with them.. talk to them.. we’ve been talking to them for years.. even Clinton’s plan that they ignored was talking to them? I’m of the opinion that we are currently dealing with them.. but it’s taking a back burner to the media.
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I believe we are, and will continue to engage NK.. I believe there will be military action taken eventually because of their leadership. I also believe that Iraq is something that should be dealt with, and should have been years ago. We agree on what should be done in NK.. we just disagree on the Iraq issue. I must say I apprecate your coherent views, even if I don’t agree with them.
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well joseph it looks like you have some…umm…controversy i guess ill say. all i have to say is that he slid into office by the skin oh his horns…er, uh…teeth. my second comment is that 47% of americans are opposed to an attack on iraq, unfortuantly once elected the american voice has little power or influence with the president.
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Ya the UN.. where Chirac has veto power and very intimate relationship with Sadaam. A lot will get done there!
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Read my 2 newest entries.. there is a personal relationship between Chirac and Sadaam.
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Time frame is irrelevant.. you said he hated Sadaam and there was no relationship.. there was a very personal relationship between the two. Doesn’t it make you think about the veto?
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Is there really any reason to disbelieve there is still a relationship between Chirac and Sadaam?
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If the people of France truly are against war you are correct.. I personally don’t know and haven’t seen any figures saying so.. I just know the Chirac connection which is admittedly irrelevant if the people truly believe no war. I still don’t like the fact they have veto power, but that’s a different argument entirely.
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Night, was a pleasure.
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righty.. well yer-man up there seems quite interested in what you wrote! anyhoo. I’m for this whole war thing. See as we all know, Saddam is a bad guy. One less bad guy is a good thing. Maybe it’s being done for the wrong reasons, but isn’t the end result the important thing? I’m glad to see that the Turks rejected the US deal, as I can see Kurdistan being encouraged by the US as a kick in t
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teeth to the Turks.The Kurds have had a bad time from both the Turks & Saddam. We won’t see a Yugoslavia style uprising in Iraq. In Yugo, the people rose up because Slobodon refused to accept the election result, Saddam doesn’t (and won’t) give his people the chance to vote for someone else. Also he has his crazy Republican Guard to protect him & his mates from uprisings.
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As for North Korea… indeed they should be dealt with, the US is really being two faced on this subject, but don’t forget that China is very friendly with NK, and SK is very much opposed to a war there. As for Bush… phycho! Small scary man! He may be going to war for Oil.. I dont really care. Again as far as I’m concerned, once Saddam is out, & people get freedom, I’m happy.
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I find it funny that France is speaking of being the “Guardians of peace”.. lets not forget their Nuclear tests back in ’95, oh and the civilians they killed in New Zealand to stop them protesting against these tests.. Gee I also remember a celebrity speaking out against France, & Chirac at the MTV Music Awards in Paris in ’95… lets see what I can remember of that speech…
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“what a night… what a crowd… what a bomb… what a wanker you have for president… what are ya going to do about it?” remember that? The guy who made the speech was in France last week getting an award from France, and praising Chirac. Let’s also not forget that Chirac had Mugabe over not too long ago…
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Anyway, I’m for less bad guys. Yes it may cost lives, but it’s safe to say that the lives saved outweigh those to be lost. First Saddam, then Kim, then Mugabe. (I wish) It’s annoying that the US supports the Saudis, but until I discover Cold Fusion, that’ll have to stay the same for the world to function. Anyhoo, twas a great entry there Mr. Joe. I salute thee! Kev
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wow. . . a lot of notes here! anyways. . . i would agree with you for the most part, the war is really about oil and i don’t want a war. but. . . the people i know who are either for a war or just kinda undecided think its truly about national security. so now I have a question for you–What if Iraq really does fund al qaeda? shouldn’t they be punished? How?
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Phew! Chim17 sure got worked up about your entry….. I am staying out of this whole thing coz I’m not as informed as I should be. And I keep thinking of the Bush caricature on 2DTV…general!!!
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I don’t normally get into political things, as I feel a bit “dumb” on the whole thing. However, I am sorry if my husband’s plane landing in your country for a few hours and getting some fuel is an inconvienence to you. I don’t support war, but I think that if people feel it necessary to take out “trouble people” than my husband is more than ready to go and do it. He told me himself when …
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… he stepped on that plane that dared to land in your country. He is only interested in protecting his family, friends, and my friends, which includes Kerouac. I mean, before 9/11, who would’ve thought that anyone could ever get away with an attack on America? If we don’t nip it in the bud, who knows where they may strike next? Maybe the next time they will actually kill my family …
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… as my husband was stationed at the Pentagon when the terrorist attacks happened. Maybe the next time they will hit a mall where I am shopping with my two daughters, minding our own business. I am sorry to be harsh, but I have to say that you all haven’t been threatened like we have, so there is no way for to understand why we are sending our husbands, brothers, fathers, sisters …
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… wives, and mothers to deal with Saddam. You can’t understand what we are going through. You didn’t have to drive past the Pentagon, seeing its charred walls everyday like we did. You didn’t have to worry everytime you heard an airplane fly over, like I did for days after the attacks, and even still now. …
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… I just wish people like you could understand more before they go and try to make us look like the bad guys. I am sorry JayeL, and I am sorry Kerouac.
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we are, man, we are. thank god we didnt vote for him. i imagine ireland’s role in all this is larger then anyoen imagines, as the troubles probably provide convenient blackmail against mr blair. as for this being about oil, i disagree. its not about oil, its about power polotics. and thats just as true for america as it is for france and iraq.
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IS NO ONE MOTIVATED BY MORALITY ANYMORE? ARRRRGH!
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I am german, so I am European as well. This was probably the best entry I have read on the war so far. I do not understand why America and Europe are so far apart at the moment..it scary. Yet, I do not want to give my opinions up for sth I do not believe in. And I absolutey agree with you, even though most of my american friends and my former host family refuse to talk to me. Love, maren
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