Debate at the door with the witness…
It’s been a while since this happened, but it did.
When I was living on the island, Leah and I resided in apartment buildings so it was hard for people to knock on our doors to solicit things or in this matter ideals and dogma. Now that we’re living in a house, I’m surprised this hasn’t happened that much but it did today.
Just as I was serving breakfast to the kids, someone knocked on my door. I wasn’t expecting anyone so I was curious to who was there. When I got to the door there was an elderly lady, and I could tell from the bible in her arms that she was there to preach the good word. Yes, I had a visit from a member of Jahovah’s Witness. Me of all people… my oh my.
I stood by the door, partially open and she asked “Would you like to talk with me about our lord and savior?”
Well, the kids were occupied and I really was just getting up and had nothing to do… so, why not?
She started to preach about how the bible is the oldest book in the world (debatable but I let it pass) and how there is only on true God in all tha jazz… I mean getting on a real tangent. Finally after listening to her for a few moments, she then asked an important question, “Do you believe in God?”
“Nope.” I said very softly. There was no need to be aggressive. My tone was pretty playful the entire time.
“You don’t believe in the bible?”
“Nope.”
“Well you need to read it…”
“I have. I read numerous religious books when I took religious studies courses when I attended University.”
Which is true! I read numerous religious ‘gospels’ to study them for projects and essays, and actually knew a lot more than she assumed. Truth is, the more I read… the more it actually reminded me why I don’t believe any of that stuff. Reading the bible doesn’t make one believe, if you actually read all of it instead of cherry picking the good parts, that will make you a non-believer faster than reading anything by Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins.
Then I hit her with some question of my own, not only to prove that I actually read the book but with serious problems I had with it. First question: What do you think about the passage in Exodus, Chapter 21 that says it’s okay for me to sell my daughters into slavery? Both myself and my wife are University graduates, so what would be a good price to ask for our girls?
I asked her about other passages, such as the one that says it’s all right to stone someone to death for committing adultery. Then I asked her the more interesting questions like does she really believe Earth is only 6000 years old? Do you believe in talking snakes? Do you believe that women should really be considered only worth half a man?
She cracked on the Earth being 6000 years old, conceeding that she didn’t believe that part. Well that’s a start. What about the others?
She told me that men should be the masters of their house, and the big decision makers of all problems and that women should let their decisions be final and honor them. I can’t I agree with that, women are just as capable of coming up with good ideas on how to solve problems and should have an equal say when things are going wrong. I never said anything back to that, and waited for her answer about talking snakes.
Her idea, the snake was a victim of ventriloquism. I’m not making this up, she really believes that the snake was a victim of some sort of demonic possession by the devil and that’s why it was talking to Eve. At this point it was hard for me to keep a straight face and move on to my next question. Basically I let her know that an instutition that doesn’t consider women equal, condemns homosexuality as a sin is one that will never have my support nor even a hint of consideration since this blatant discrimination to me is proof it never came from a higher being. An all good being would never approve of looking down on anybody, and that alone is grounds to toss it all in the trash.
Our conversation lasted about 15-20 minutes, but I finally had to let her go cause that was too long to leave the kids at the table to eat breakfast. They’re fast eaters and I could her Jon banging his plate on the table which is his way of asking for his post meal juice. An interesting meeting of the minds. I in no way insulted or disrespected her, and at the end went out of my way to let her know that I respect her right to believe whatever she wanted. I however chose not to and wished her a good day and closed the door.
If the kids were not here or at school or something I might have played along for a lot longer but I also have a bit of a cold so I really wasn’t in the mood to debate it for too long. She seemed like a nice lady, but I also concede that this was something she’s likely been a part of for years if not decades, so I had no intention of changing any minds. None were changed, she left with things pretty much the same as they were when she first knocked at my door. But it was good for a laugh…
You don’t see any Atheists going door to door, trying to tell people how things are… yet as I saw today, this mild version of ramming religion down the throat goes on. Trying to ‘save people’ as far as they’re concerned. No telling what kind of heathen I am in their mind, but it’s not like I really care. I’m sure it will be a while before she or anyone else comes knocking back, but if she does I’ll be sure to post an update.
Peter
Well, it’s not as though she forced her way into your home. You could just as easily have turned her away.
Warning Comment
Tiny: I did say it was a ‘mild version’ meaning that it wasn’t aggressive. And yes, I do have the choice to close the door and eventually did. At no point was she aggressive or anything, hence why I said it was mild as in passive. Still, the ideal of going door to door… how would these people react if I went door to do to give away free copies of an anti-religious book like ‘The God Delusion’? I doubt they would like it that much and pretty much freak out.
Warning Comment
RYN – Yeah, I read the graphic novel so I totally get why they did it, and it didn’t bother me at all. I thought it was a good thing.. hahah 🙂
Warning Comment
Yeah if Atheists went door to door we’d all get our butts kicked! Doh!
Warning Comment
I recall I got a Jehovah witness thinking when I was 12 or so and he visited my parents’ home, and I told him that some many people had already lived and died, was he sure he would be in the 144,000 saved ones or was that number already used up?
Warning Comment
RYN – that is funny about Toys R Us! It was somewhere in Uptown Toronto.. I forget the name of the mall. It has a Silver City movie theatre and isn’t too far from Yonge and Eglington.
Warning Comment
“Well you need to read it…” Why do they always, always, always make that assumption? It’s as though they think it’s so obvious and self-explanatory that anyone who read the book would instantly convert! I’ve read the Bible too! It’s a big part of why I’m not a Christian. There are just so many things wrong, there are many contradictions, and, like you said, many ofthe “laws” in the book of Exodus, etc, etc are not anything that anyone today would be able to support. I always sort of tend to think that a lot of Christians haven’t read their Bibles very well. Or, at least, haven’t thought very critically about the Bible. Good job engaging her in intelligent conversation, though. I bet she didn’t expect you to be as well-versed in scripture as you are! I hope you’ve given her a bit of food for thought. And, an institution that condemns homosexuality as a sin is not an institution of goodness, or of love.
Warning Comment
RYN: They’d probably react the same way most people react when Jehovah’s Witnesses knock on their doors – say no and close the door.
Warning Comment
Interesting! Seems they always travel in packs of two in these parts…. Sounds like you did a good job getting your point of view across. 🙂
Warning Comment
One time when they came to my door I politely said I was busy and asked when I might stop by their Kingdom Hall and talk to their congregation. They were horrified! Oh no no no – that simply wasn’t done. So I offered to accept one of their pamphlets if they’d accept one of mine. Again, they were horrified – it was as if I’d asked them to shake hands with Satan. That pretty much ended the conversation.
Warning Comment
I’m pretty much willing to talk to anyone about anything provided there’s a level playing field and a minimum of mutual respect. The JWs prefer to play by other rules.
Warning Comment
I remember a JW knocking on our door when I was a kid, and it happened to be my brother’s birthday party and we got a whole spiel about how birthday parties were the work of the devil or some such thing – they got pretty short shrift from my mom. I honestly think there should be some sort of law against trying to convert people. I have no issues with people believing what they want to believe, but I don’t like people trying to convert me.
Warning Comment
Yes, they believe it all as do the Mormons. At last my eldest had the strength to shoo away two little old ladies who returned regularly to save her soul. My husband grew up in Pakistan and can discuss Allah with the door knockers. lol
Warning Comment
Nobody has come to my door yet but I have met twice in the past week with a group of Mormons in exchange for accepting their free Book of Mormon (didn’t have one, so what the hell). It is interesting but those kids (they are between 18-20 yrs old and on their 2-year mission) have a hard time thinking clearly and independently about these issues. But then again, Mormonism is verging on a cult I feel.
Warning Comment
Warning Comment
Speaking as a Christian, I just feel all this knock on a stranger’s door/accost people on the street/invite people to your home on false pretenses methods of “witnessing” is simply being lazy. The best method is to live life in such a way it’s clear you love God with everything you’ve got and treat your neighbours far better than they would expect from someone. But that’s far more difficult.
Warning Comment
Brilliant! I love how you were intelligently challenging her instead of being abrasive and condescending like some non-believers. I agree that this is definitely a “readers choice” entry! Take care
Warning Comment
What I don’t get is if there are only a few spots in heaven open (according to the JW’s), why are they out trying to recruit others? Isn’t that making their own spot that much more tenuous?
Warning Comment
They don’t so much ‘force’ there way into your home as they do with keeping you occupied with meaningless babble. I had one that would’nt go away until she gave directions to there ‘church’, and she was also insistant that she knew me from somewhere. Weirdos.
Warning Comment
if “men should be the masters of their house”, did her man tell her to get out and preach the word then? shouldn’t she had been at home cooking and cleaning then?
Warning Comment
Hi, I saw your entry on Readers Choice. I can understand your feelings about parts of the bible. I do believe in God and the bible myself. I don’t like to argue or maybe I should say debate religion or belief’s in God with anyone. I feel like it’s a waste of time. Everyone is going to believe or not believe what they want to. I enjoyed Raven E’s note.
Warning Comment
Random Noter: I am Christian – and profoundly disagree with Bible thumping and door knocking. Words alone mean zip when it comes to evanglism. Being a ‘personal witness’ simply by walking the walk. Because you weren’t violent doesn’t mean you weren’t aggressive. You were, in my opinion, passive aggressive – a trait I find to be common in most Atheists. I would have personally thanked the woman for her time, gently closed the door and spent that time with my children. Why waste time arguing apologetics with a stranger and trying to work a stutter out of her? Truly – to what end?
Warning Comment
MJ: It’s funny that you mention words don’t mean zip… when words is all you really have. I mean there isn’t a single shred of physical evidence out there that proves one religion is more credible than another. None what so ever. So if words don’t mean zip, what does that leave you with: faith? That’s just another word for sucker, which is what you are.
Warning Comment